Ukraine: Battling Disinformation In the Fight for Existence - A Voice From Ukraine 25 March 2022

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Igor Nalyvaiko is a journalist from Ukraine, and currently in hiding he is helping to battle disinformation with contacts around the globe.

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Thom Dharma Pollard

Transcript

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Thom Pollard: 1:01

The following is a conversation with Igor Nalyvaiko. He is a journalist from Ukraine. He spoke to me from an undisclosed location, talk about the work that he is doing there to deliver accurate and up to date and sometimes up to the minute information about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I was introduced to Igor through an old friend of mine, actually my former English teacher from high school, David Bernstein, who would probably object to me using his name because I know that he doesn't want any attention or light shined upon him for the volunteer work that he is doing with Igor and some others in Ukraine. Essentially, what the volunteers are doing is help translate the Ukrainian reports into accurate English for a wider consumption. We'll talk about that in the interview with Igor. Before I share this powerful interview with you, Igor shared with me a website that people can go to donate if they are interested in helping or lending a hand, he sent me to the return alive Foundation website. The website can be found at save life dot i n dot u A, slash n slash donate, I'll put a link in the show notes, and also some other very important links where you can find more information on the work that's going on behind the scenes in Ukraine. Here's what it says on the save life website return a live foundation next to the Ukrainian military. the forefront of the Russian Ukrainian war is not just the front, it is where the war for Ukraine is going on. In hospitals, warehouses, landfills in the media, in offices, we supply and repair equipment, train the military and officers help change the Armed Forces talk about the war firsthand and curb the flow of propaganda. And this information. For the seventh year in a row the fund provides the Ukrainian army with the most important thing, a tactical advantage. And so that is how I came to meet Igor. And this morning on the 25th of March 2022. I contacted Igor via zoom, here is my unedited conversation with Igor Nolley Vibo. So thank you in advance and 100 times 1000 times for your time. So the pronunciation of your name.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 4:02

It's not only by Core Knowledge typically. Yeah, that is the typical Ukrainian surname. That's is it. So is that a somewhat common name in Ukraine? You know, this is the surname of the Ukrainian. Cossack. Yeah. Oh, that's something like that, you know? Yeah, it was. The name of the concert was submarine submarine Nalli Vika. So this is a widespread Ukrainian

Thom Pollard: 4:28

name. Amazing. So the the Spirit is in you is so would that be appropriate the fighting and that, that enormous spirit of, of courage is in you, it seems,

Igor Nalyvaiko: 4:45

you know, the spirit, I believe that the Spirit is in every Ukraine and today has been ignited on the 24th of February. And I believe that each of us just saw the power of it. And not only here in Ukraine, but far beyond his borders.

Thom Pollard: 5:05

I, you know, I can't even imagine, honestly, and I can do everything in my power to try to empathize and understand. But honestly, I have, it is almost impossible for me to even conjure up in in the wildest fantasy of my mind what it must be like, I am here in a kitchen. And my morning worry is that my cat jumps into a zoom phone conversation. And so, Igor, if you could just tell me, just explain to me what what is happening. How has this been for you and how was it thrown your world into a different perspective?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 5:54

You know, what I can tell you that we had a beautiful life, like it's a vise and You can just imagine the situation when you're like, just imagine the situation that you're at home, you're waiting for a family to come, you're waiting for your friends to come. And you're having a, started here in Ukraine, where the Russian invasion, what did you personal personally know about Ukraine?

Thom Pollard: 7:53

Personally, in 1999, I was on an expedition to Mount Everest, and our next door neighbors, if you will, in base camp, or Ukrainians. And we partnered with them side by side to set the route up the mountain. And so, you know, it was there wasn't a lot of similar language, they had some cursory English, found them to be some of the strongest, bravest, most persistent and, you know, really amazing climbers, but but their, the spirit of that team has never left me. And so that is one of my first, if you will experiences with the Ukraine. And then I also have a very close friend who I coincidentally met on Mount Everest in 2016. And she's an emergency room doctor in New York. She grew up in the Ukraine, I don't know, the city, and in high school, she moved to Moscow. And then she moved to the United States as a young adult, and has not, you know, so she, I haven't spoken to her yet. So so. But that's it. I mean, I know so little of it. And but all I know, is I'm drawn to it. And I'm insanely curious about it and, and feel like I need to know more, and what what I can do. And,

Igor Nalyvaiko: 9:22

you know, the thing is that I, I noticed that in the messages that I received from foreign friends, you know, a lot, got a lot of, I've got a lot of friends abroad, and some of them are still writing their Ukraine with the article there. And that is the mistake, you know, because you should say, Ukraine, that is important. You know, so that is the first thing you know, right now, coming back to the Philippines, that each of us, each of the Ukrainian each Ukrainian is experiencing right now is just like, everybody's fighting on its frontline, you know, in one night, regards united the way we could not even expect from ourselves. I wish everyone in the world could actually experience this, you know, this, this is the Ukrainian union. We are like living in a united organism right now. And everybody is doing something to make the victor closer. You know, you know what I mean? Like, we are busy all the time, and we are doing it nuts, not just you know, expecting something in return, where today we are giving more than receiving you know, and I believe this is the cornerstone of democracy, to give more, to make lives of other people better to the extent that you can do that, you know, this is what I mean. This is what I want others to listen to and to follow. That is why we are expecting the support. Because we know that together there is nothing impossible if we are together. There, like I cannot imagine even anything that we cannot do with the United, you know, so it's, this is actually our power. And I'm not I'm talking not only about Ukrainians, I'm talking about our fellow friends abroad, you know, today, a lot of countries are supporting us. And personally, I could not even expect that scale of support. I'm telling you, I see that everybody wants to be our helping hand. And this is just precious. Even at this point of time, we are working on the informational frontline. And as you know, I apply to my foot to foot not friends to foreign to just American foreigner, foreigners, for me, you know, like strangers, who did not know me, but all of them were just contacted me back asking how they could help. And they're helping. And I'm extremely thankful for that. I wish I'm telling this to each of the guys I'm working with today. I wish everyone just could understand the scale of my gratitude. That is what I wanted to tell you.

Thom Pollard: 13:13

That is beautiful. That message that you just shared with me will be out to the world, the way I share it in my podcast form today. i That's my goal today to put this right out there, Igor, thank you for that. And so you're a journalist, and and so how this connection with us came together is my former English teacher from high school growing up, I wrote a note somewhere on his social media, I believe it was Facebook that he was helping translate and helping with articles and social media posts. And so I immediately reached out and I said, I want to talk to you. And he said, Nope, you're not talking to me. Because he didn't want to take any of the the light, if you will. And so that's how I met you. Could you explain to me how that connection works? So what is it that you're endeavoring to do? And how are these like English teachers, if you will, helping you, if you will, getting information to the world?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 14:25

Sure. I think that's one of the important frontlines if the information are one. Because as we know, misinformation is destructive. And it's a deadly weapon. And me and my colleagues are fighting it every day. So what we do, as a journalist, I am working by the TV channel, and there is a huge team of people who arranged the I don't know how to say that. It's like the social media platform to provide news to the whole world. So we are working on Facebook, we are working on Twitter, we are delivering truthful news to the world for the world to know what's really happening in Ukraine, for the whole world to understand what is really happening here, and to even see with their own eyes, what is being done here in the center of Europe today in the 21st century. So are we realized that it's important to talk to invest to a vast audience, if you know what I mean, for them to get more involved and to feel the pain that has been done to Ukraine to date. That is the reason I applied to I just, you know, I just posted on Facebook, I just like posted a message on Facebook, and that I was looking for the American proofreaders who could actually read the news and make them readable for the Western audiences. Because you know, even if we are translating the news, they might be some mistakes in delivery, you know, in the word choice and the word flow and for Western audience to understand better, what's going on and to actually fill it, it was just crucial. That is the reason I applied for Jeremy direct is A US journalist and Dan, he connected me to Patrick a corner. And then it's just you know, it's like a change. Everybody was just getting involved reaching me out. I was like, Whoa, like, everybody's ready, everybody can help everybody want to help. Everybody's willing to do that. And that is how I met David. And we are in touch every single day. So you were working like 24 hours per day, throughout this whole period of time, and I believe that this influence is fruitful. You know,

Thom Pollard: 17:14

that's fantastic. That is good. That's, that's a very positive thing to know that people like David, who he was one of the great teachers in my life as a high school student, and just a great guy. And his heart is, is is a heart of gold. And so I know how much he'd want to help. And when I spoke to him yesterday, it was like, I'm doing something. And it's not a lot, but it's something and, and so I think that might be partially the frustration for some people, because they watch the news. And it's, and it has its own twists and turns. So we have our news outlets, but but the front lines people like you is is truly the source.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 18:00

So you know, it's not about it's not just about me, it's about the I want to speak for the whole team, because you know, there are, I'm working with just fantastic people who are who know what to do, and who know how to fight on these frontline, you know, so I'm very grateful for getting in touch with them. It has you know, today, I can't even explain you the number of people that I got to know during this month, the people I didn't even expect to meet, not only here in Ukraine, but also abroad. So it seems to me right now that we are one huge family that is thinking in one day in the United direction, you know, and everybody knows what's right. And everybody knows what to do to win. Because this victory is not just the victory of one person or one nation. This is the victory of the world, if you know what I mean, because all of us are fighting for the same values for the same morals. And I believe that if you are on the right side, you are you cannot but a rich, there are pinnacle of this victory, you know, because we don't feel this, we don't feel being aloof anymore. We feel that we are supported. The thing is that this support should be constant for the world, to hear about us for the world to remember about us. And to know that we still need the support, because the fight is still going on. It's not finished. So the world should know that we need people to go to the streets to remind their governments that Ukraine is still bleeding. Ukraine is still needs this help and support. Ukraine is still in the need of the no funds for of this no fly zone over Ukraine, you know, because it's not just about the buildings. We don't care about the buildings we only that we care about the people because this is the treasure that we have. This is the treasure that we cherish the people of the Ukraine and nation that is what we care about.

Thom Pollard: 20:35

Yes, that the very well said I am thank you for that. Igor explained to me what your day is like what are you I'm Are you can you tell me where you're actually located? Generally speaking right now, or you don't and obviously, if that's not possible, at least maybe give me your day to day life, your your level of safety, can you go outside can power internet, things like that?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 21:03

I cannot tell you my location for safety reasons. I cannot tell you that. You know, you cannot be saved in Ukraine actually. You can take care about yourself, your family. But it's hard to feel the safety. So to be honest with you. I don't feel the days changing. I might my one big day just started on the 24th of February. You know like it just started. And it's like one huge one big day I don't know when it's going to and I, right now I see that it's already spring outside. Yeah. But this is the only actually clothes that I have that I took with myself. Yeah, when I was evacuated from the city where where I lived in before. And, but I didn't care about that. Yeah, I just noticed that it's actually Yeah, put at least something presentable. But you know, I cannot complain right now, because we're watching the news and our watching what's happening to my people in Mariupol. It's like, it's, this is actually what I'm doing everyday, in the morning, in the morning, and throughout the day, I'm scrolling through the news, I'm reading the news, and I see that people are suffering. But you know, I know that everybody's doing something to on the way to freedom, you know, on the way to make this, you know, to make this and quickly, I mean, to make this work, and quickly. So every single day, I'm basically working, or delivering this, like throughout the day. So um, I wake up, I check on the president, I check on my friends, I check on the people in the most destroyed regions. I check on the green corridors whether the evacuation was alright. Every Ukrainian is right now supporting the army. I don't know a single Ukrainian who is not supporting the armed forces of Ukraine, because these are our guardian angels. Somebody is working on the like is volunteering, delivering food? Yes, someone is like gathering clothing for those in need. Someone is taking care on on the other refugees. And we are delivering the news to the west, like 24 hours per day, translating the news, translating the articles. Asking people to share this information are urging people to act. I mean, the ones that are abroad. So even those Ukrainians who are right now in the US in Germany, in Poland, everybody is doing something to help and support. And that is what that is the reason why I came to you actually, I want you to urge people also to support Ukraine, to not forget about us that we are still here. People should scream about this situation, because together only together with our joint efforts, we can reach the victory.

Thom Pollard: 24:28

Thank you. And I will not even edit our conversation. And so it's going out. And I hope that people will listen. And so, Igor, when you woke up the day of the invasion? It's Did you you didn't have time was I mean, you said that's the only clothing that you have, like, you have a phone. I'm guessing that's what we're watching each other on right now. Anything else? Did you were you able to bring any food? Or did you have pets or family? Mother Father,

Igor Nalyvaiko: 25:09

you know, I was living alone in the apartment where I lived. So basically, when I woke up, when I walked up, the only thing that I heard is the phone call from my family. They just called me and told me that they were started. And, you know, it was illusional, because I could not believe that it could actually happen. And no one could believe this. Because till like 2am, I was working on my story. So I was busy. I was doing stuff together with my colleagues, and was getting prepared for sleep. And then I just, like, fall asleep, and in a couple of hours. I heard my phone ringing. I was very like, sleepy and could not really understand why my mother was calling me like that early. Yeah, like, that was like around 530 or something. Am I can't even remember the the time you know, I can't tell you anything precisely because I can't remember everything, everything just like you know, in some nightmare. And she told me that actually, Russia invaded Ukraine. And the first thing that I did was just like turn on the news. And that is actually What I saw there, that, yeah, the capital of Ukraine was being bombed. And some other cities of Ukraine were being bombed. And for you know, for an half an hour, I was just like, looking out the window and watching people. Like they were in cows, people were very scared. I think that is the right word. And they were like moving, they were rushing to the markets, they were already closed. And, yeah, something like that happened. The only thing that I decided to pick up with me was just some food, some basic one, like, you know, some apples, you know, something, like, some nods, the phone. And the first thing that I did was, I was going around to the cash machine to get some money, cash money, because I realized that something might happen to this whole system onto electricity. So basically, I need to have at least something, you know, some some money with me, because I never used cash before I use the digital utensils, just to you know, that is actually the first thing that I did. I cannot tell you that I was panicking. Like I collected myself to do all the right things to do. And I believe that my actions were quite reasonable because, you know, Ukrainians, they are smart enough to behave the right way in these critical situations. And some people try to ever create, some people try to save the I remember a man a man like holding their ducks, and they like this. How to set the cages with your pets. And these are actually the first thing they were taking care of. So it's not like they were packing their cars with some clothing or something? No. So the first thing like, we take we care, we take care about life, that is what we chairs that is actually what's the most important here. That is the thing. So this is actually how the day started. And then you know, when you are watching the when you're watching the news, and you're when you see the places you used to visit being destroyed. This is painful. Because you are watching this, you know, the city the Oh, I was there, you see I was there, I remember this place and you see that something terrible is going on something that you could not even imagine because you read about these only in the books of history about the World War One or World War Two. And normal person cannot even believe these they think like you cannot, with the whole mind, realize the whole scale of the tragedy. If you are not right there in that spot, you know. And I can just imagine what people who were in the hardest points could feel. And I believe everybody just saw the pictures. The pictures of the kids crying, the pictures of women in blood, you know? Like, this is insane. This is just insane. And it should be stopped. It cannot happen in the 21st century. It just cannot like and the whole world should help stop this. Because this is an act of terror. This is a crime.

Thom Pollard: 30:56

You go You're not going anywhere you're staying put you're like people are probably leaving rightly so people with young children and everything you're staying put and you're gonna keep fighting in the way that you can.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 31:08

Actually right now we are here in Ukraine. Yes, we are doing what we can do. Everybody's doing what one can do here in this situation. So but everybody has a choice. You know, and I cannot even judge. know everybody I want what I'm sure of is that everybody is doing something that is an if somebody feels more comfortable doing something Important for Ukraine from some other place? That is absolutely fine. And I think that women should take their kids, they should definitely save them in the first place. That is true. So that's okay.

Thom Pollard: 31:55

Okay, so you go tell me how or where people can go, if they want to help. I know that I personally have your Facebook and Instagram. Are should I share that with people? Or is there somewhere else you would like me to send people you said that there was Twitter and Facebook were what would be a place for them to go?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 32:19

You know, first of all, I think that it's important to support our their armed forces of Ukraine, you know, because they are doing the, you know, the powerful job. I honestly cannot even understand how they're doing that. But every Ukrainian is praying for them today, everyone. And as they told you there, today, we are one whole family. And that is true. So first of all, I would urge to support the armed forces of Ukraine. The second thing is I want I would ask, I would ask people in other countries to urge their governments to close disguise of Ukraine, because we are being bombed, that is we cannot hide from you know, we cannot hide from from this. That is the crucial point that we cannot fix it today, as this guy should be closed. The third thing is that people should scream about Ukraine and support it all over the world, in the in all the possible ways, in every way possible. And of course, check the information, check the information, because you understand how the fakes are working. And this is like the one of the frontlines that should be defended as well.

Thom Pollard: 34:04

Perfect, perfect. Igor, is it? Is it possible that perhaps we speak again, soon, maybe every 10 days or every week or anytime that you want? Tom, I have an update? I want to be there for you in any way I can, but not also ask for too much. Because just this half hour, ish of your time, believe me, I, I did. It's a lot, it means a lot to me. And I don't, but anytime, I would love to talk to you regularly, if you thought that that was something that would help you.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 34:44

I, you know, once I have these time, you know, because we are like busy all the time we are working. And there are sirens, like during the days. So we cannot be online all the time. Since sometime the light is going off, you know, sometimes the internet is going down. And when it's when I when we hear the sirens roaring, we have to quickly move to the shelters and somehow protect ourselves to the way that we can do that. Sure, when there is an opportunity and the chance to deliver information to the world. Of course, of course we can do that. Of course if that can help Ukraine stand because we are resisting were standing. And you understand that we are not going to give up? It's not possible, actually. So definitely, definitely we can do that.

Thom Pollard: 35:34

Wonderful. So then perhaps I I could leave it at. In this it sounds like you just answered the question. hope and belief and conviction are, are certainly there's no lack of those things in know your heart,

Igor Nalyvaiko: 35:53

of course, because it's feeding the power inside every Ukrainian today. You know, like so it's just invincible. That is what I'm sure about

Thom Pollard: 36:06

I know you have things that you need to do today. I send my heart and my love from all the people, the very few people who know that I'm actually speaking with you today. But I would echo that for all the people listening to this recording which will go out very very soon and I will send you those links. And do not ever hesitate to reach out to me I'm I'm here and I'll do whatever I can to help.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 36:32

I do appreciate these and actually not only me but we are Ukrainians do appreciate that. Thank you so much for support. staying strong,

Thom Pollard: 36:44

thank you have a great day be safe.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 36:48

Thank you so much. Take care, thank

Thom Pollard: 36:54

wow, I am speechless. For the first time, probably in my life. I can't say that I've ever done an interview, or spoken to someone of any more import. Then what I just did with Igor, all the things that I talk about, and report about in my podcast, or in my writings about climbing mountains, about discovering new species about exploring rivers, and yes, those things are important because that's about the spirit of the human life and about what makes us truly human. But the fight, Igor said it, the fight for existence is at hand, not the fight for survival for existence. Ukraine is bleeding. Ukraine needs our help, needs your help. And he asked, first and foremost, please help in any way possible. The Ukraine Army, they are they're angels. And they're in because it is representing a fight for democracy. Those angels are also ours in any country of the free world. People who are listening right now, a website people can go to donate can be found at save life dot i n dot u A, slash en slash donate, I'll put a link in the show notes, and also some other very important links where you can find more information on the work that's going on behind the scenes in Ukraine. If there's one thing you could also do that could help it would be to share this episode with anyone who you care about who might have an interest in it. That's the only way that I get out there. There's no advertising budget, there is no media team to help put this episode out there. So I'm relying on you to get the word out there so more people can hear the voice of Igor and the people of Ukraine. So thank you for listening. If you have any questions, please reach out to me. And I will put you in touch if I can with the right people. Thank you and onward.