Ukraine: Fighting the War From Behind the Front Lines - A Voice From Ukraine

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Recorded on 26 March 2022
Iryna Kabluchko is a journalist from Ukraine.

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Thom Dharma Pollard

Transcript

Thom Pollard: 1:01

following is a conversation with a Rena Kabu Chico, a Ukrainian television journalist who recently fled the capital city of Kiev in Ukraine. She spoke to me about helping her mother evacuate to safety after her building was hit by a missile, about the day of the invasion by Russian troops, and the death of Ukrainian journalists at the hands of Russian troops. This is the happiness quotient on Thom Pollard. Irina was introduced to me by Igor Nalli Vibo, a colleague of hers Igor is currently in hiding at an undisclosed location in Ukraine, you can hear my conversation with Igor that took place on 25th of March 2022 on the happiness quotient podcast, as well as on the happiness quotient YouTube channel in its entirety. Before I begin the conversation with arena cub Leachco, please consider sharing this episode wherever you can. These brave journalists have spoken to me to help stem the tide of Disinformation and Propaganda. When you share the episode with others, you in turn help tell the real stories of the people of Ukraine. Now my conversation with arena Kabukicho. Tell me about that. So you you're a television reporter and journalist.

Iryna Kabluchko: 2:33

I'm a journalist, mine, like current job my job from previous life. I was TV host for like, traumatic segment for morning show of the national channel. It was more infotainment. So now it doesn't work. It's not on the broadcast. But yes, still, it's quite professional.

Thom Pollard: 3:00

So okay, so and what happened? Did they shut the television station down? Or is it just too dangerous? Or what? How? Why is

Iryna Kabluchko: 3:09

it? No, no, no, no, no. You know, what happened? All our main channels national channels. They united for one news stream? Yeah. Not only Ukrainian United not on the politician united. But even channels forgot about ratings and united to make this news stream 24/7. And, like Each channel has like special slot? Several hours.

Thom Pollard: 3:44

So well, and so where does that get broadcast from? Is it isn't it dangerous? Wouldn't that be a target? Or is it in an undisclosed location?

Iryna Kabluchko: 3:56

Ah, it can be dangerous for it can be dangerous. Yes. Because some channels still have studios in Kiev. Some channels moved to West part of Ukraine, some western cities and organized to those Zara but for reporters for journalist who works? Who works? Yes, in Kiev, in Mariupol Magnitsky. It's extremely, extremely dangerous. Sure. And I think you heard about, like Russian troops killed. Several Germany's to ready cranium to America.

Thom Pollard: 4:44

Can I have Can you can you tell me a little bit about that? Because in the United States, there's so many different reports. And I follow it. But so is that been in the capital city where that's taken place near where you are?

Iryna Kabluchko: 5:00

I'm now in relief at West Ukraine. But I told you before, even now, we still have have air alert. And 30 minutes before our conversation in reef of war, several strong explosions. We still don't have official information, but it's very big smoke. You can see it almost from each part of belief now. And yes. So it's what is about to leave about this case is journalists. By the way, sorry for my English. I will make mistakes, but I think we will understand each other.

Thom Pollard: 5:44

Yes, absolutely.

Iryna Kabluchko: 5:45

About journalists. We have several small cities, towns, close our capital. It's helping Boucher and gustong and it's very close to Kiev and a lot of people who work Kiev, my colleagues, generally it's young families, they lived there because it was a wonderful place to live outside key for with, you know, this New Year's trees around and colorful small houses, it news, new houses, it was very wonderful place. And almost from first day of the war, it was not competitive, but Russian troops tried to occupied it. And it was very complicated fight between Ukrainian and Russian troops. And generally, and finally, Russian occupied some part of this region. And inside for Ukrainian for civil people, it was really how, because people sit on the ground, like two weeks without electricity, warm food, water, with on homeless people with I don't know animals, and a lot of killed people just lays it still like that they just lay on the street. And people even can't bury their relatives like husband, for example, can bury his wife and do it on the ground of his house. This is situation now it's maybe 10 kilometers from key from our capital. So and in this cities, it's what happened with journalists. So because they tried to film equation, it was almost impossible to evacuate from this cities. And some journalists who tried to just cover this situation. They were killed Sarah.

Thom Pollard: 8:09

It's in the I'm speechless. This is something so strange to my experience in my life that I can't really imagine it although, you know, television, and the News brings it into my home, if you will, essentially. But let me ask you this. So when when? On February 23, life was normal for you. And then the occupation then they invaded? What was your day like on February 24?

Iryna Kabluchko: 8:47

Oh, it was very long, probably 5050 hours of results sleeping. You know, it's strange, because usually I switch off my phone for the night. But this night, I didn't do it. I think that most people in Ukraine feel something's that you had them justice died. And I sleep with air plaques. That's why I didn't hear explosion. But I woke up from my mother mother call. She just asking me. Like, did you hear it started? And at this time, because I already was without earplugs. I hear hear strong explosion. So I remember that. Sure. I just teamed up. And my first goal, my first focus was to help to organize some of equation for my mother, because she lives in hartcliffe, if you hear about the city, is to crane. And it's now it's even famous district, north south of car. It's East East North of Harkey F and understood that this district view firstly need to rush into troops Russian tanks, because it's only 35 kilometers from the frontier. The border as it's why I remember. You know, I was ready for this. I even had some plan what we will do is my mother, but when it happened, it was not panic at all. But it was you it's very complicated to focus on one things like you, you try to to do something to find for mom some apartment somewhere and you don't know where then you try to listen to some news just to understand situations where Russian are just in this moment. So first, I tried to organize this for my mother. Then I understood that I put Parents are several things for the bar, you know, like, the water like backpack with my documents with my money. But I didn't think about water. And when it started, I didn't have water at all in my home. So I went outside tried to find it. All soaps were closed. And I remember that in one minute, I really understood what happened. And I just stop and start to cry. Because I felt extremely unfair about Ukraine, about our people like what we did wrong. We just wanted to go our own way. Just wanted to live without dictator. It's it's all it's all our desire just to have our own life. And for this, we have this dramatic situation. It was maybe a couple minutes, I don't know. So then I was succeeded to this visit negotiation with my mother, because she's 65 years old, and she leave left this very dangerous district. And she's spent next 10 days. In my cousin's house. It was several for several families there of his kids. And most times they spent on the ground because it's always was explosions and give, you know, I was afraid about tanks, street fights. And for that I had planned, but I didn't expect that that will be bombardment, really, I couldn't think that they will bombard civil people and house. And just, for example, my mother house and Harkey from this district. It already was heated by five rockets, five missiles, and one on ground and all house all buildings with holes. All flats result Windows without glass. Some result doers. I don't know how they will renovate it or not. But doesn't matter. My mother. She's safe now. And then, after 10 days, she emigrated from Harkey if I can send you a photo, how platform looked like this day, it was like million people on platform. And it was people in train wore everywhere. On Tour lead on flat occur everywhere kids, animals. It's really disaster in 21st century. Yes. And Phil first, my first day I remember my first air alert. First I sold fighter fighters and the sky first. My first hours on the shelter, bomb shelter, it was minus four floors. extremely cold, dirty. And again, kids there and remember what it was surprising. Each time we had hear it. Like, please don't panic. Please don't panic. But I didn't see panic at all around me. All people was reset eyes, but pretty calm. And I understand that, like Ukrainian really have some dignity and even in this dramatic situation. They are strong. They don't show children. They are nervous and try to keep situation.

Thom Pollard: 14:57

So wow, that's a that's a powerful and frightening day that. I don't imagine that your worst nightmare would be that. And so you left the capital city as well. Did you evacuate?

Iryna Kabluchko: 15:16

Yes, I left when I understood. I was I really trust our army. And I believed always they will protect me on the land. And they really did it. They're super brave, super professional, super motivated, and I think we all proud of them. But again, I didn't expect that it will be bombardment from the sky. And after first bombs in key for two residential buildings. I understood that most time I spent underground without any connection. I even didn't have phone connections there. So I totally on useless, useless areas because I just sit on the ground and do not think I couldn't sleep. Because always you expect something we slept? Not on exam? Yes. Like, it just we slept on the claws to the ready, run away from house on the ground. And I understood that yes, it's complicated to have to work for the victory from Kiev for me make some people can do it. It's okay, but I couldn't. And then I left to leave. And here I have several direction to do something useful.

Thom Pollard: 16:50

So that's, that's beautiful. Thank you for that explanation. So you're right now what? You're continuing your work, if you will, in German, by by using your journalism background to help get information out to the world. Are you working in tandem with Igor and other people, too? Are what are what are some of the things that you're trying to do now, in terms of to stay productive one, but to help the world see the real story?

Iryna Kabluchko: 17:25

Firstly, we start to work for our morning. So again, we try to make people a little bit different information, then use the just learn them to live this new reality. You know how to find job in this condition? Where to better to hide from bombardment? I don't know how to find good place abroad, something like that. It's first direction. It's like my main job. Yes. But as for front for the war, what we do? I told you that we have this one news stream now. And it's on Ukrainian language. Sure, yes. But a lot of people around the world don't understand Ukrainian language. Yes. As it's why we do other stream with Russian language. And I and my colleagues, we do, like dabbing on there, we sit exactly here and immediately to translate it on Russian language. And you can see the stream on YouTube, on Russian and big skeptical skeptic about people from the Russia from Pharisee. It's from the Russia. But I know that a lot of people can understand Russian as a role like multi country countries, other berjon Kazakhstan, Armenia, Georgia, and we want people who understand Russian, no to about situation in Ukraine, because Russian propaganda is extremely strong. And I see even what to think sometimes my best friends and understands that even they are victim of this propaganda.

Thom Pollard: 20:09

Wow. So do you need help? Are you asking people from the outside to assist you in these translations? Or to reach a broader audience? Or is it online? Is there somewhere people could actually go and see this? What you're doing?

Iryna Kabluchko: 20:27

Ah, it's yes, it's three people can see it. Yes, you can find it on YouTube. For people who understand just Russian language don't understand Ukrainian. Yes, we work on radio station. We have special equipment for that. It's like big team of TV anchors, who can speak very fast and translate very fast. So we have everything for that just ask people to watch it. People who want to know to

Thom Pollard: 21:09

wonderful so I'll ask you to send me that any links or YouTube links or the channel links? So I can share those with the people who listen to and see our conversation. And then also, just kind of in a day to day living kind of thing from what what your life is like so you're in Lviv is that where is it okay for me to be say that or are you in a?

Iryna Kabluchko: 21:40

No, no, I'm okay. I'm not hide. I don't hide.

Thom Pollard: 21:45

Okay, so do you see soldiers? Like, are there? Are there Ukrainian soldiers in the streets? Like, do you see them? Because when right before we got on today, you said that you could hear bombs, and there was an air raid. And so when you look outside, what what does it look like from you know? Like, is it just has your area been devastated? Or is it does it kind of look like a normal day to day life or their soldiers and, or their Russians? Or how does that look?

Iryna Kabluchko: 22:21

You know, in compared with Mariupol, for example, or even Kiev Kharkiv. It's totally different atmosphere. But it's still strange because we've accepted millions, millions, millions, millions Ukrainian from other parts of our country. statistics that around 11 million people left their houses in Ukraine now. Maybe you heard about three millions abroad. But inside Ukraine, it's live in millions. Yes, it's, it's really a lot. And many people from vif they really don't understand what the world is. They didn't see it, mostly. But they tried to do a lot of things to help this refugees to organize a lot of things to help our defense forces. For example, my first day here with my lovely friends, we did this cocktail Molotov ah, productive cocktail. malata it's to be honest, it's very nice therapy. If you narrows to make a cocktail Molotow it helps a lot.

Thom Pollard: 23:42

And so what did you do with it? Did you use it or

Iryna Kabluchko: 23:46

No, we didn't use the be productive for our we have territorial defense forces. Yes, it's not army but it's very close to Army it's like people who just want to defend city they're not professional military. So it's like Special Forces and for them they don't have really cool equipment like our military has have and they really need this cocktail monitor because it's very useful for tanks for example, you can destroy tank with that so you want to do

Thom Pollard: 24:30

so you taught the viewers how to make the in here in the United States Molotov cocktails you taught the people how to make those so they could defend themselves if an attack or a tank came near their home

Iryna Kabluchko: 24:45

you know i It's not that people do it for their house No they just productive and they give this Territorial Defense Forces Wow big part a big part of this was brought brought yes to key deliver it to Kiev and other cities. Like here is like the real V Yes. Yeah, make many things to organize. Many things for for our army for refugees for for that for victory, because here it's more or less calm, but at the same time, relieved by the Vice beautiful city. A lot of all the buildings very romantic atmosphere. And it's extremely strange when you walk for example, on this streets, romantic streets during the spring, and here's this terrible air alert sound. It's like something it doesn't suit each other. You understand? So sometimes you feel so peaceful here, but sometimes, almost daily, I woke up not from my alarm on my phone. I woke up from air alert, sometimes several times per night. It's like that. And this sound. It's like something. It's our routine already. And when I don't hear it for a long time, I think Oh, something something wrong wherever or alert.

Thom Pollard: 26:33

Wow. Okay, I don't want to take up too much. Your time so I, if I could ask you, what would you like the people outside of that region to know like, like a lot of people from the United States will watch this or listen to it. There's people from all around the world. But is there anything that we could know? Or if people feel like they would like to help? What? What would that be? Can you share that with us?

Iryna Kabluchko: 27:02

I want people know two things. Probably. I think our president share a lot of things I want. Other people know. So I will tell something maybe President didn't tell because it's from my own experience. Firstly, it's not national conflict. And it's never been like that. Because my mother, I told you before about her, she, she's part of Ukrainian nation. She has a Ukrainian passport. But she's from Russia, her roots, Russian, and she almost can't tell speak Ukrainian. She speaks Russian. And all since she started to live in Ukraine. She never had any problem with Russian language in Ukraine. She never had any problem with current nationality and Ukraine. And now she lost her home. She in heat, her old age, she had big stress. She so bombardment, and you understand she had problem from Russian, not from Ukrainian. So all propaganda of Russian, it's not true at all, even one person. It's not true. And at the same time, my father, he's Ukrainian, he's from Poltava. It's a town in the center of his center of Ukraine. And he leaves for a long time in Russia. And he has Russian passport. He has speak Ukrainian, but he hide Ukrainian now. He started to be fanatic. He like and support Putin. And since this, the war started, only one thing he told me in message, please not to be so aggressive in Facebook. He even didn't ask what happened is me now. Because he supports this war. And a lot of people think that Putin is problem, it's what I want to say. program, not only with Putin because millions, millions perience millions people in Russia support this war. And if you remember what happened in Georgia, Abkhazia, Moldova, trans, Austria, many, many cases like that. It was Chenier first, the first Chilean war. It was before Putin, and we had very long and dramatic history relation with Russia. Might be you know about holiday more when we didn't have bread and people eat each other. And it was Russian did Russia did for us. So wasn't Putin Yes. But it's already was like that. So I don't know what wrong is this? Russians, but they're like that. Most people like that. Some are weak to to fight that but most supported. It's, it's something I want people know abroad because most people don't understand it. I think about how to Ukraine. I I just asked to support our army. Because what we do now I want people to understand that they not just protect Ukrainian land. I think it's the war psychopaths against normal people. That's why all normal people in the world should support our army because they make it for all world or normal world. Wow,

Thom Pollard: 31:20

thank you. That that is very well said I so appreciate you telling me some of your story. And I hope and would like to ask you if if there's this potential of doing this again, soon, maybe in Are we if you have the capability in a week, or in 10 days, and just maybe periodically, check in with each other, and you can give me updates.

Iryna Kabluchko: 31:48

Yeah, thank you for what you do. Thank you for your interest. And thank you all people who will watch it. And who wants to support Ukraine? Now?

Thom Pollard: 31:59

I just actually have to ask you real quick when I when Igor told me that you are interested in having a conversation with me, I went to your Facebook page. And there is a video on your Facebook page that is so surreal and shocking. I cannot even fathom the words to put it but of the of the mass grave being dug in the capital city and in those bags for 67 Ukraine's Ukrainians and I, that brought it so home to me and it also made me realize how completely unprepared really, I am to even have any qualification to speak to someone about this because I really know so little other than that this is just a tragedy. And it's, it's it's terrifying.

Iryna Kabluchko: 32:57

Yes, I would like if it's possible, you're so this video, maybe it's European butcher, this place where American journalist was killed? I told you before. Yes. And situation in Memorial Eve, it's even worse, because it's hundreds, hundreds, hundreds people on the street. You know, when you need water, you go outside to find some water and you just see this bodies on the street. It's now it's real. And people like hostage hostages. Yes, they they don't have choice. They can't leave the city now because it's blocked by Russian troops. I want it I want to really people see it and know it because again, I understand Westbroek have very like, reach normal life and you don't want some may be Ukraine disturb you with please give us the POM protect our sky, no fly zone. It's maybe annoyed some people but if you understand reality, you even think even one second to support Ukraine.

Thom Pollard: 34:21

Irina, thank you so much for your time, stay safe. And stay in touch and I will share with you when this is completed. But be be well and know that there are people who do care, right, whatever little things that we can do. We will try.

Iryna Kabluchko: 34:42

Okay, thank you so much. Have a nice day.

Thom Pollard: 34:45

You too. Bye. Bye now. Thank you for listening. Please consider sharing this episode wherever you can. These brave journalists have spoken to me to help stem the tide of Disinformation and Propaganda. When you share this episode with others, you help tell the real stories of the people of Ukraine. This is Thom Pollard. Thank you