It's Our Burden To Bear - Ukrainian Journalist Igor Nalyvaiko on the Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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Igor Nalyvaiko: 1:01

This is a lesson for every one of us. If we're losing, you know, hope or anything. This situation should teach us to be grateful for at least being alive and for having the chance to make this world a better and a safer place. So right now, this is the burden for Ukraine to bear, and to show how to stay humanistic how to still, you know, not to turn into anything else. So as you see, we are still preserving these signs of being part of this world. On the right side.

Thom Pollard: 1:41

following is a conversation with Igor Nalyvaiko, a Ukrainian journalist who is at an undisclosed location, is currently working to fight the propaganda coming out of Russia about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I hope you'll take a moment to click subscribe, wherever you're watching, or listening, and click like leave a rating and a comment. I'd love to hear what you think. And also take a moment of your time, if you will, and visit my Patreon page, where I do have exclusive content there. This is not a normal episode. For me, it is a little bit different. However, in trying to bring you stories of interesting people, a lot of times you'll hear stories of Mount Everest, explorers, people who have come out with films adventures, this is a story of a different type. This is an explorer and an adventure of a truly unique and different type. This is about a journalist living in Ukraine, who is in an undisclosed location right now working tirelessly to try to stem the tide of propaganda about the war being shared by Russia about why that war is taking place. I'm deeply inspired by the story of my guest today, Igor Nalli, Vika he was on about a month or two ago telling me about the work that he's doing in the situation there in the Ukraine, I do not profess to be an expert on politics. And although I did share some thoughts, in the context of this interview, I'm not making judgments on anything or anyone about their politics, particularly about some comments that we spoke about here in the United States. This is a story about somebody fighting to try to save not only himself, but about the Ukrainian people, I hope you'll take some time to listen and share it with those who you think might be interested.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 3:40

It's been a while. Yeah, thank

Thom Pollard: 3:42

you, you're probably I just, you know, the fact that you're actually carving time out of your day to talk to me is I'm I'm blessed and honored. Hopefully, one person, two people hear this and learn something and makes a decision to act or to help. Or to at least, you know, be on your side. I, you know, honestly, I don't really know. But that's the goal. So

Igor Nalyvaiko: 4:12

you're up to ask me anything that you need to know, any question that you'd like me to shed light on. So first of all, I want to like, as a starter for this conversation, I want to thank you, for everyone who is supporting us, because honestly, I we're filling the support from it's like it's pouring from everywhere. And it's making us even stronger, we understand that we are part of something much bigger, and the or that Ukraine is actually not alone. We are together with all of the rest of the world, but in the real evil. And I'm sure that together, we are just doomed to win.

Thom Pollard: 4:50

Amazing, amazing, Igor. So the idea of having lost so much, and to be going through so much and feeling gratitude is really something that people outside of your situation should try to grasp onto because there's a lot of complaining about a lot of things that really are meaningless and to weigh that with what you're going through is is really inspiring. You know, it's yesterday

Igor Nalyvaiko: 5:22

I was translating the interview, I was asked to help to translate the interview of a woman who knew who was evacuated from Kramatorsk. This is the city that was hit by the Russian missile. I don't know if you heard this situation, there was a huge number of people who were trying to, to get evacuated from that city. And Russian forces just hid the innocent people there. So I was just like, translating the information as delivered to me from my colleague. And you know what? I thought that I almost gotta adapt, adapted to the sort of information pouring every day. But it's not true. Because every single time, you know, when I'm getting anything like this, I feel it very personal. I don't know how it's how this can implant that month, if you know what I mean, like, every single day, I have to, like, scroll through the news. I'm reading them translating them. So as I told you, me, with a lot of other people from all over the world are delivering the accurate news to try the information and fight the Russian propaganda. And every single time it's there is something that is making our hearts shattered, you know, we thought that it we've, we've seen everything. But it's not. Because every time there is something that is making a shiver even more of their atrocities that are getting disclosed every day, or, you know, the word horrible is not enough to describe that. I don't even want to tell you all of them, because, you know, I have found one who is right now serving. And he told that everything that is being shown to the world is not enough, because the atrocities are even worse. So if it's going to be shown, and it's going to be disclosed soon. I'm not sure if people can actually survive that mentally, and accept that mentally.

Thom Pollard: 7:40

Yeah, so you mean that the atrocities are so great that it would be almost overwhelming too much for people to even? Yes, do the comprehend?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 7:51

That's what I'm trying to say. So even right now be? I think that people have seen a lot, and they are ready to a lot. But what's been done? And what's been not told yet? Ah, you know, I'm not sure. I think that, of course, we will have, we will have, we don't have the choice not to accept that. And to somehow learn to live with that. And to first of all, it's not just about us, it's about the world to learn with that. Because it's not about the situation of Ukraine, you know, so, so this is it. This is how it is? Oh, let's, let's get back to the information that I was wanting to tell you. So I was translating that interview of the lady who was ever, ever created from cronitor. So she was hit by the fragment by these, how to call that, you know, this particle of the missile that yeah, that is hitting the Explorer? Yeah, yeah. So, so she was not hit directly, but she was hit by the fragment of the missile in her leg. And she survived. And the way she described the way she was evacuated, the way she tried to save her kids been in the situation, they were not heard, luckily, and the way she preserved this, you know, sober mind even been, you know, literally broken, she could not walk her leg what that was, like, her right leg was done, amputated, she still is so positive about the life ahead. And this is a lesson for every one of us, if we're losing, you know, hope or anything, this situation should teach us to be grateful for at least being alive and for having the chance to make this world a better and a safer place. So, right now, this is the burden for Ukraine to bear and to show how to stay humanistic how to still you know, not to turn into anything else. So, as you see, we are still preserving this sense of being part of this world on the right side, even when it comes to those who are attacking us. So this is you know, I was so much struck by her story that even there been you know, in this been bleeding been in the on the operation table. All she will think in our was not you know, like how terrible it was. She was thinking first of all, how to take care about her kids, and how to still remain sober, sane, and two are ready to be ready to restore the country and to restore her own life. So Oh, it's really inspirational.

Thom Pollard: 11:06

Thank you for sharing that. That's, that's a beautiful and painful but poignant story. When when you are looking at the situation, obviously more atrocities and more, more of just the horrors of it all, are coming to light through work of people such as yourself and other fellow journalists as well. And the people on the ground holding their cell phones and taking pictures. Do you feel that there's been a shift it from where I stand and looking at the news, it seems that other countries, satellite countries like Finland, and, you know, are starting to say, hey, you know, I don't think this is just going to be the Ukraine, it's time for us to really get ready for this. And and for what could be next. And with the idea of Russia supposedly wanting to annex parts of Ukraine. It does seem like the world is noticing, in a different way. And I'm talking political powers willing to stand up to Russia or to Putin. Have you gotten that sense? Or is that just some filtered through BS that I see in the news here?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 13:01

Now what what I see right now that, and what I like, is that, finally, Europe realize that Russia is a problem. It's a threat, regardless of the resources and the fossils it has, because basically, one year when you look at these country, fossils is everything that it has. So it's not actually there is not it. You know, to my mind, it may sound a little bit weird, but when you live in a democratic society, you are able to produce something complicated for the world to use some products, I mean, the complicated ones, because you have to use some weights for that, you have to be since you lacked some resources or something, you need to think of some more complicated ways to bring the life on an on an on a different level. But if you are stuck in, you know, you know, in the period, and with the resources that are, they're actually not amateurs, but still there are a lot of them, you don't quite care about how to evolve, both economically, mentally, artistically, you know what I mean? So I think that this is the main problem, they did not learn how to be more useful in some other ways, rather than those they have, or what I see right now on the political ground, so Finland and Sweden have already filed their applications to the, to the non NATO, right. But if you trace the behavior of the Russian Federation, and how these states are, treats their application, it's really hard to understand because yesterday, they said that they got nothing to do with their involvement, I mean, with the application of these two countries, and then today, they started saying that they will, there will respond them in a military way. So of course, we can are considering our previous claims of Russia, we can think that they are bluffing as usual. But still there is a threat. And there are people's lives. At stake, you can get me back to the to your question, because you know, I got a little bit straight. Yeah.

Thom Pollard: 15:22

Well, the the the thought the prevailing thought was, at least from here, it looks like Finland and Sweden want to join NATO. And then Putin says, If you do, there's going to be trouble. But you know, it's almost like, well, the trouble is not going to be any worse than if we do nothing. I mean, for sure. So so it sounds like people are starting to, like take this in a way like this, believe me this that goes well beyond the borders of Ukraine. And just kind of on a little side note, I have a friend, a parent of a friend of mine is on a vacation in Slovenia right now. And I looked at the map and it and I hadn't thought about this until I looked at the map. Oh, let me look at Slovenia. It's just a few 100 miles away from the war in Ukraine and I thought I I almost don't know how people can live or bear the idea that it's so close just these beautiful countries where people

Igor Nalyvaiko: 16:29

and fail to understand a couple of days ago a Russian missile hit. Hit a target 15 kilometers close to Poland, for you to understand. So basically, as far as I see these, these are some, you know, some signs for other countries to back off. But what I'm seeing that, to be honest, Europe is just fed up with these threats. They're not that afraid anymore. And I appreciate that because they got, you know, this feeling of, you know, let me find the right word how to describe that. Before the word Ukraine, they were really somehow separated. And now even small countries realize that they will get the help in hand. For, for instance, there is Moldova, bordering with Ukraine, and you know, there is a territory of Moldova that was also occupied by by Russians a while ago. Yes. So there, it's called transduced for something. Yeah. So there is a small part, bordering like they occupied in the sport in Moldova a while ago. And they were threatening, like, they were making some provocation there as if Ukrainian army was attacking their these territories to involves Moldova and these territories in this war. Yeah. So and, today, if I'm not mistaken, the President of Moldova even publicly started talking that they are actually against the whole innovation that was done to Ukraine by Russia. Before this time, they were a little bit, you know, silent, they did not try to get in move into that, because the there is no army there. As far as I understand. As far as I know, they're, they're very weak in the military sense. So that is the reason. But right now they are starting to head up. And they're starting to talk as well, because this territory there was occupied there in Moldova. It was not, you know, proclaimed, officially, there is some sort of a republic or something. It's like, you know, this is just the same scenario that has been done for 100 years. Like, this is the same mode, and only right now the world is starting to react somehow. And I think that the Tamama, that the first and the crucial, you know, mistake that was done is that when Ukraine was invaded the first time, I mean, the Crimea issue. This is actually the starting starting point that gave way to all of this that is happening right now. So and I believe that Europe and the rest of the world that that could actually react to that now, I mean, react not only orally but verbatim actions, that the world right now realize that that because it's getting closer to them, you know, I'm not sure I'm not a philosopher, I'm not a psychologist, too, tell you what I'm going to tell you. But I just want to tell you that when I'm going to tell you next, I had a conversation with the with the Irish neuroscientist, and he and I had this conversation just to understand what you know, is the general idea. And the general problem. I mean, with the Russian mentality, because people are a group species. Yeah. So we working with a we live in crypts, and we used to that live in thing centuries. Yeah. So we understand that if the majority thinks that way, supposedly, this is right. You see, so and it turns a very useful to include in the hands of a tyrant. Okay. So I think that this is a perfect means of leading the propaganda because, in the end, as we see, all of the targets that the Russian regime wanted to achieve here in Ukraine with this invasion came to nothing, because none of them, none of them is achieved. And what they are doing right now is just occupying territories, they are guiding the land, and the resources, all of the resources, including the human ones, you see, so initially, they wanted just to change the regime or something. Yeah, they didn't manage to do anything. I mean, they originally called that the regime, because it was, you know, we're living in Ukraine has always been democratic. So it's hard. For me personally, it's hard to understand how they think. Yeah, because I have never been oppressed here. And I have always had a chance to express myself in any way possible. So this is how we live here. So it for Ukranian It's really hard to understand their mentality. Because it's very different. We are very different mentally. This is like something that was cherished throughout centuries. Yeah. So even if you check, you know, even if you check these Ukrainian tails, there are folk music, everything connected to, you know, to the society, you can trace that what we cherish here, first of all, this is freedom, beauty, and hard work. I think these are three ground stones that society has been built on, because this is what's been taught to children since like, childhood. And I think it's getting imprinted in the mind. But this is just my personal point of view. It's like you see the world, you know, every one of us is seeing the world and its own perspective. Yeah. And but in general, you can, like why nations are somehow alive, because every nation has some sort of similar vision of life in general. Yeah. Because was based on language. I think that language is very important to things. At then the kid is learning a language. The rest some processes been, you know, going on in in the brain and some B's neuro knots been created. And the way the actual language is constructed, also influences the way the person thinks. Like, this is what I used to believe. So. Okay, I got invaded again.

Thom Pollard: 23:21

Okay, that's it. That's perfect. Right. Right on. So let's let me ask you two more questions. And I know you're busy and working. So one, and it might be a part A and a B of each question, but you're still in an undisclosed location. Am I correct? Yes.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 23:42

I'm going to, I'm planning to go to the Capitol soon, because I've got some work to do there. So but right now, I'm still here for this whole period of time. I've been here like, working from the, from this place. And every Yes, like yesterday, and the day before, yesterday, I was walking out and the moment I'm walking out on the streets, I'm seeing the watch, sir, I'm listening to the sirens, they are roaring all day long. So basically, people cannot just stand in basements. Throughout the day, this is not possible. So you understand that too. Sometimes. Even me, I caught myself thinking that I'm getting myself into danger. Like walking in the street, the the siren, and I have to either run home quickly, or I have to find some shelter nearby. And I don't know where it is. And or I have to go to finish what I'm about to do and then come back. So for you to understand every day we are having this curfew. So we are not allowed to switch on the light after 9pm. And yeah, this is troublesome. But you know, I cannot complain at all because I what other people have suffered and has been through is nothing compared to all of these. So it's like, I cannot even be complaining a bit about that.

Thom Pollard: 25:08

So if you were to return to your home, or where you lived with is Does it even exist? As you know, it did it as it is that

Igor Nalyvaiko: 25:20

I checked. I checked and it exists so far. I'm glad to know that Yeah. But you know, it's every time it's a little bit scary to look in the eye we have we are having these apartment chat in the I don't know how to call that, you know, like a chat in the messenger without my neighbors. So we're exchanging messages there. And we have not done that for a month. I will started thinking that something had, you know, happened there, but then, you know, a message turned up that it was still okay. The building was home. So yeah, but you know, Phil, I robbed it. The governor of Ukraine is threatened. And as you see, there is no safe place here. Even here any other place where right young a couple of weeks ago, there was a missile shut down by our Ukrainian I don't know by this Ukrainian anti Arab aircraft. Yeah. Yes. So they, so this missile was put down, but still it hit the building, you know, so even if the missile is put down, it can hurt My children, I, you know, I'm very pleased to watch, like children running around and singing Ukrainian songs. So they know what right now we are even more aware of who we are.

Thom Pollard: 26:50

Beautiful. And are there Russian soldiers near where you are? Or would that be too much information to share? And if you can, we can move on on that question. If you

Igor Nalyvaiko: 27:05

hear where I am, I can see that they're not very close. But the place where I am right now is a little bit bordering to the region where the active battles are underway. And the goal.

Thom Pollard: 27:26

Okay, cool. So So you are a journalist and you're continuing to work. And you're that's probably why you're in an undisclosed location. Because it sounds like you're, you're essentially living to deliver factual information, not only to the people of Ukraine, but to the world. Am I? Did I make a jump there? Or you're because you're delivering stories to the TV stations or to the news outlets is, or kind of share with me what, what your work is entailing right now.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 28:02

So look, right now we are trying to even deliver that correct news to be a Russian speaking audience have tried to do that. But honestly, I am very scared that it can hardly reach their minds. You know what, to my mind that a very big problem is that for a long period of time, a Russian news and Russian propaganda was brainwashing Europe and the rest of the world. As you know, they were rushing channels in Europe, broadcasting 24/7. I, to be honest, I did not know that. And I can only imagine what information was broadcast there. I can tell you that even right now, what Russian authorities are doing on the occupied territory, they're going to organize some sort of, you know, a public talk or something. They are going to invoke some even foreign media to cover this event or something so I can really understand what is going to be soon broadcast for the West. And what we're doing right now. This is we have to be quicker than that we have to deliver information quicker than them for the world to know what's happening. Because if you're having like, it's very hard to tell what's right or wrong. Of course, right now, the world has seen their their real faces. So I'm 95% sure that their propaganda is to no effect anymore. But still, there is some small percentage of people who, especially those who had something to do with Russia, they are spreading disinformation. They're in Europe. They're spreading fake information. They're still telling that Ukrainian forces are shelling Ukrainian villages, Ukrainian towns and Ukrainian people. That is just insane, because you saw yourself how Ukrainians are fighting every single Ukrainian here because to my mind, Ukrainian people is the greatest treasure that we have. We don't care about the buildings, we inherit care about the properties, because it will all be rebuilt with our Ukrainian hands. So we care about our people. First of all, in the first place, no matter no matter if these people are involved in the bust of Ukraine, in the center in Kiel, or in the east in hurricane New Orleans, or Donetsk, do you understand it? So? It doesn't matter? We don't tell who is more Ukrainian or who is less Ukrainian? And what's like, as far as I understand, Russian propaganda has turned to some other ways of delivering information because they're watching that no one is believing these buyer laboratories, I mean, this nonsense that was spread and the you know, what, I was even more shocked that they were really people believe in that. I thought that it was some kind of a joke, because no one who has had reasonable thinking can even think about some you know, if you heard about this fight in GIS, like poisoning the geese, flying or something, you know, no, it was nonsense. But still I know that they there are people who are believing this and I cannot explain how how they It can reach the minds and how these information can make them believe it, I don't know. So, the first thing what we are doing, we are doing a 24/7 like we are translating the news, we are checking everything we are checking the vast How the West is also reacting. So. But I would like to know how also I would like to know how this information is being delivered there in Russia, because it's vice versa, you know, I had the access to some, you know, some telegram channels to just peep and see how they're presented that and it's so aggressive and destructive. And it's making people it's teaching people to hate. This is all that is that they're about, they're about hatred. And I don't know how Ukrainians could be hated that much, but by them, I don't know why, honestly.

Thom Pollard: 32:34

Your work is is inspiring, and hopefully people will see and listen to you and to this conversation and be inspired themselves to reach out and help or assist and make sure that BS and propaganda doesn't spread. So if somebody's doing

Igor Nalyvaiko: 32:55

everything to hinder the propaganda propaganda machine, you know, because it's really powerful. It's been powerful for quite a long period of time. And I'm really happy that the world is not that blindfolded anymore.

Thom Pollard: 33:14

What can people do so so where would you like them to go with? Somebody said, I'm gonna go to my computer right now. And look something up? Would they go to your YouTube channel? Or would they find you somewhere for more information? Do you have any suggestions for that from like, say, from countries that aren't seeing your reports?

Igor Nalyvaiko: 33:35

I think that right now, there are a lot of reliable sources of information for the time being. Yes. And first of all, what I would like people to do is to check, because I even heard that some of the Russian resources are guiding you know, they're mimicking, if I dare to say if I can say that they are trying to, you know, some Trump's transform their resources to look like the Western ones or something. Yeah. So everything should be really fact fact checked right now. And what I would recommend, we are working on the web page, that is called u 24. world we are guiding we are we have launched three are channels. Yeah, it's a tick tock one. It's Twitter one, and it's a Facebook one. So they can be also followed. We're delivering the information there. So this is how the accurate information can be attained. But I think that those who are also who's been interested in getting the truthful news, yeah, they have already got the resources to get it. Yeah. So right now, what I would, you know, call for is to other people outside Ukraine. I want them to urge their governments provide the weapons for Ukraine, because you understand that if there is a problem, if there is an illness, it should be cured. And Ukraine is adopted today, the weapon that is provided to us is a cure. So you understand what I mean. So right now we're functioning like this. And only with these joint efforts, the ultimate aim can be gained. Wow.

Thom Pollard: 35:27

Powerful, powerful, Godspeed to you, my friend.

Igor Nalyvaiko: 35:31

Thank you for your time, I do appreciate that.

Thom Pollard: 35:34

I will share in the notes to this video or podcast episode where you can find you 24 The stories that are coming out of Ukraine that have been fact checked for any propaganda, and they will all be linked to there. I hope you'll take some time to follow and listen to the stories that are coming out of there. And I hope so I hope you'll take some time to reach back out to me whether you want to talk to me here on YouTube or on my podcast, the happiness quotient, but you know, you can find me on Tik Tok on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram. I'm everywhere. As Gary Vaynerchuk says if you're not in those places, you're not relevant. And so I'm endeavoring to reach out and find you, my listeners anywhere that you might be because these stories of people and places are vitally important to our human nature. So come back off and share it with those you care about. And I will see you all real soon on the happiness quotient.